When you think about increasing your business valuation, chances are you focus on the numbers – revenue, profit, EBITDA. But what if one of the most valuable assets in your business isn’t on your balance sheet?
In the latest Exit Insights episode, Darryl Bates-Brownsword teams up with Kevin Harrington to explore a business owner’s most misunderstood intangible asset: people and culture.
Read more: From Transactional to Transformational: Building a Team That Drives Exit Value with Kevin HarringtonThey dive into a hard truth – many businesses still treat their people like commodities. You do a task, you get paid. But that transactional mindset leads to disengagement, high turnover, and missed opportunities. “If you treat people like a commodity, they’ll treat your business like a transaction,” Darryl says.
Culture isn’t just a buzzword. It’s built on beliefs and behaviours. It’s what drives productivity, innovation and, ultimately, valuation. A business with a strong, people-focused culture retains talent, attracts better buyers, and runs more smoothly – especially when the owner steps back.
Darryl and Kevin also break down the dangers of hiring the wrong person, and how a toxic hire can damage team morale and slow down growth. Recruitment should be more than ticking boxes for skills – it should be about values alignment and cultural fit.
So, if you’re preparing your business for succession or sale, start looking beyond the financials. Building a culture that treats people as long-term assets will pay off in ways spreadsheets can’t measure.
Topics Discussed:
- Why “Human Resources” is outdated thinking
- Culture as a key driver of business valuation
- How transactional thinking harms business sustainability
- Aligning people with your business vision
- Why the wrong hire costs more than you think
Actionable Tips:
- Recruit for attitude, not just skills
- Make your vision clear and inspiring for staff
- Identify and address toxic behaviour early
- Treat your people like assets, not just workers
Tools & Resources Mentioned:
- The concept of an “intangible asset register”
- Simon Sinek’s approach to team culture
- Covey’s framework: Knowledge, Skills, and Attitude
Transcript
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (00:01)
Welcome to the podcast that’s dedicated to helping business owners prepare their business, maximize the value so that when they’re ready, they can exit on their terms. This is the Exit Insights podcast presented by Fabric Business Solutions. I’m Darryl Bates-Brownsword and joined today by Kevin Harrington. How are you today, Kevin?
Kevin Harrington (00:20)
Yeah, full of fun. It’s the good start to the week having these podcasts recordings with you, Daryl. And I think we’re on a of a journey on this one, aren’t we? We started off a couple of weeks ago talking about the intangible assets of a business and what doesn’t show on a balance sheet. And it’s great when you start focusing on these things. Personally, I found
myself spending a lot of time considering things that spin off from it tangentially. So I hope our listeners love what we have to say. But I really find it stimulating for myself as well in that what you’re doing and what we’re doing collectively is triggering other ideas that are proven to be valuable and start new conversations with people.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (01:06)
Yeah, 100%. And yeah, like you, I’m focused and enjoying ⁓ digging into the intangible assets because it’s something we talk about and loosely have a framework that we can dig into when we’re working with clients. But with this series, it’s made me think wider and deeper and go, maybe we need to be building an intangible asset register. And maybe we need to…
have a bit of a checklist on what that could be and really go wide and deep and all the different types of intangible assets you can have in a business and maybe even start to filter that down by industry instead of just being generic, here’s the intangible assets. It’s such a big topic. It’s wide and varied and I don’t know how many people are consciously out there thinking intangible assets ⁓ because they are intangible and it’s hard to think about by their very definition.
Kevin Harrington (02:01)
Yep, some good points there. yeah, if you can’t grab hold of it, sometimes it doesn’t get talked about. And the things that physically present themselves day to day in your business, like a customer with a faulty product or a complaint or whatever, drags you off in another direction. And it really is so important to focus on these intangibles. So what have we covered so far? We’ve covered positioning.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (02:29)
Positioning and revenue are the two topics we’ve covered so far. But if you’re gonna ask that question every week, I’m gonna need a heads up so I’ve got the list in front of me. I can remember the first two. And today we’re gonna talk about people or talent, as I prefer to call it, and the culture of the organization, often referred to as human resources, which is a term I absolutely hate with a passion because it seems to, you know,
distill down the people and the talent in your organization as just another resource, ⁓ which makes us suggest that we’re thinking of the people, and people by people, right? And the people of the lubrication and the energy that gives any business a culture and a soul, to distill it down to an asset, a human resource is in my mind, just criminal.
Yeah, if we’re to treat our people as assets or resources or treat them like a commodity, guess what? They’re going to treat us like a commodity. They’re going to go, well, I’ve taken everything I can from you guys. It’s just been a transaction, right? You’re treating me as a commodity. It’s all transactional. You’re just getting me to perform these tasks. You don’t want me to think too much about it. If everything is transactional and just follow the rules blindly because they’re the rules.
then and you’re going to pay me to do a job and there’s no heart and soul in the business, then I’m going to treat you the same way. And once I’ve learned everything I can from this business and I’ve got all the experience, I’m just moving on until I get a better offer because it’s all about the transaction. Right. And I’ll go and get a better offer and I’ll get a job, a similar job or maybe a slight step up and they’ll pay me more. And because it’s slightly higher pay, it’s a better transactional value. Then I’ll move on. Yeah.
That describes to me a business without a heart and a soul, ⁓ which is what we’re trying to hang on to and which is one of the key differentiators of a really good SME.
Kevin Harrington (04:30)
Yeah, gosh, you’ve made me remember some sort of early 80s management training course I went on where they, most of this is really still relevant today, but it helps reinforce the point you’re just making, Daryl, is they said, know, what are the resources in your business? And the answer is in your training class, it’s extracted out of your tooth at a time.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (04:45)
and
Kevin Harrington (04:57)
And so the resources in your business that you can use to make money and achieve your business success, are time, money, plant and machinery and people. And so immediately from that kind 70s, 80s mentality, we were educated to call people resources. And of course they are, literally they are a resource. But the interesting thing is that the interesting thing is that the people piece, people are…
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (05:03)
Yep. ⁓
Yeah
Okay.
Kevin Harrington (05:24)
resource if you want to call it that or they’re an asset. And we’ll come back to what the differences between those things in a while but people are the only resource that control the other three. If people control how time is used, people control how money is used, people control how plants machinery used and people are the most important asset in a business. And we all know we’ve all
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (05:36)
Yeah.
And that’s
often lip service though, isn’t it? Like every manager is out there going, my people are the most important asset. And you know, they don’t believe that. They don’t treat their people like that in any way whatsoever. It’s just lip service, Kevin.
Kevin Harrington (06:03)
Yeah, it often
is and I’ve said before on our podcast about a chap I know is, I’ll call him Tricky Dicky to keep him anonymous, a CEO that said, I want our people to work hard, not smart. And he absolutely saw them as just a piece of machinery that had to do work. And so we’ve all got experience. We’ve all got experience of those, I would say, business or commercial lunatics.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (06:24)
That’s such Victorian thinking.
Kevin Harrington (06:32)
that don’t realize the value of people. And it really comes down to what the culture of a business is. That’s where it almost starts, but it starts a stage before that. It’s the money, the owners, the shareholders of the business, what’s their vision? And it all stems from that. And if people can’t define what their vision is, or aren’t doing anything about establishing and confirming their vision.
they’re going to have a real problem when it comes down to looking after people and getting the best from
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (07:05)
And I think you’ve just reminded me now of some of the management training when I did in the eighties and nineties. And, and that was the line of thought that the purpose of a business was to deliver a return on the share, on the value to the shareholders. So to make the shareholders more wealthy, if we that that is transactional thinking at its finest. And, and if you think that things through, go, well, actually running a good business.
the outcome of running a good business is that you’ll be a profitable business. Your customers will be happy. Your staff will be happy. The shareholders will be happy because it’s profitable. And you can’t deliver to all of your customers ⁓ and keep doing a good job unless you’re running a profitable business. So how do we run a profitable business without it just being transactional thinking and acknowledging that we’ve got all of these people in a business and
Yeah, we’re 2025 still and people are still a significant factor in businesses. How do we run this business? How do we leverage the skills, the experiences, the talent of those people in our business? Because they all have talent, they all have experience, they all have something to contribute. And how do we get the right people in the business doing the right things at the right time in a way that they’re feeling fulfilled?
and the business processes and the business outcomes are being fulfilled and that results in a profit. That’s what we’re talking about here, isn’t it? How do we inspire, motivate these people? Because the thing about being human is that they’ve got emotions, they’ve got feelings, they’ve got dreams, they’ve got desires, they’ve got aspirations. How do we leverage all of that and tap into that? I don’t want to feel like I’m taking advantage of them, but I want to tap into that.
and get the most of it so that they feel fulfilled coming to work. And when you’ve got a fulfilled aligned workforce, then you’ve got a smooth running workforce or smooth running operations, which results in profit. yeah, it’s not tree hugging, airy fairiness. It’s going, how do I tap into that for a good commercial outcome? And I think you started to touch on it and I’ll probably cut you off, but it’s going,
How do I, is back to their shareholders going, what’s the vision? Why does this business exist? If we know why the business exists and it’s not just to make a profit because that’s not gonna inspire anyone to wanna show up to work. If we’ve got a problem or a solution or a strategy that we’re tapping into and going, we wanna be the first to this, here’s our objective, here’s what we’re trying to do, here’s our big picture, here’s our mission, what we’re trying to achieve.
And then people are going, yes, I’m aligned to that mission. I want to be part of that. Then we get people who are aligned. And I like using the word aligned as opposed to bought in, because if they’re bought in, it suggests you’ve sold to them and no one likes being sold to. But if they’re aligned to your mission and outcome, then they’re going to have some passion and energy towards it. And they’re not just showing up every day. They want to achieve the project. They want to achieve the outcome.
You know, they’ve got a line, they’re energy towards it as opposed to just rocking up every day and doing their job.
Kevin Harrington (10:31)
Yeah, you can strip that right back down to a basic if if a member of your team or your member of staff doesn’t know what you’re trying to achieve, but they know they’re supposed to lift a box up and move it from A to B and then unpack it. That’s all they can ever do. That’s, they don’t know why they don’t know where it’s going to go next. Don’t know anything about the customers or whether we need to do more of these things in the future or less. you know, ⁓
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (10:49)
Yeah, they don’t know why.
Kevin Harrington (11:00)
One of my daughters, her partner, works in a warehouse and he takes absolute pride in getting pick rates and ⁓ warehousing stock takes 100 % right all the time. He does it consistently. And do know what? He achieves more work than everyone else, even though he’s doing more stuff. Other people appear from his company.
to just turn up and almost play games, kicking balls around the warehouse. And then when the boss turns up, they move stuff. And then they put it in the wrong place and they don’t know why it matters if it’s in the wrong place. And this really is the start point around engagement. We’ll come back perhaps to recruitment if we’ve got time later, but once you’ve got people in your business, they need to be engaged. You’ve talked about it, people wanna turn up with a purpose.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (11:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, they need to be engaged in the right thing, what we’re saying, isn’t it?
Kevin Harrington (12:02)
Yeah.
And one of the soft measures for me is if anyone in the organization in whatever post in whatever company department or division, if those people go away and say good things about their business to friends and family and people outside of the company, you’re probably getting this communication rights about telling people what the vision is and what we’re trying to achieve. Because
If you just say we sell car batteries, that’s no good. But if you talk about it in a bigger sense, friendly car batteries that help people do X, Y, Z, some do pacemakers, blah, blah, blah, and people carry that story and proudly deliver it to their family and friends, you’re probably starting to engage them. And they’ll start to understand, they’ll start to observe themselves, how they fit into the context and how important they are. Because
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (12:39)
Move on.
Kevin Harrington (13:02)
Surely everyone in the business is important. Otherwise, why are you employing them? If they’re not important, what they doing there? If someone on reception is crucially important, someone that runs a post room is crucially important. Everyone is important. And let’s have them going around understanding the business and eulogizing about how wonderful the place is.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (13:24)
You remind me of a story that, and I’m not the originator of the story, but I heard it, but it just really brings the point home for me. it says, yeah, imagine you and I, we’re walking down the street and we see some construction workers and we asked the first one and we go, what are you doing? And he turns around and looks at us and sort of says, well, I’m laying bricks, can’t you see? Like, it’s pretty obvious. Like I’m laying bricks here. And we go, yeah, okay, no worries.
And you can see that that guy’s, you know, he’s doing a great job. He’s laying bricks and he’s, you know, probably laying his 500 a day or whatever it is he needs to lay in and gets his job done and goes home. And we walk, we keep walking down the street and we come to the next side of the, you know, I guess the block and we see, we asked the next guy and we go, what are you doing? What’s going on here? And he goes, oh, you should see it. We’re building a cathedral. We’re just at the early stages now, but I’ve seen the plans of this and
And what it’s going to be when it’s finished is going to be a magnificent site and you’ll be able to see it for miles. And the finished structure of this is just amazing. So that second guy is he’s totally, he or she is totally engaged in what the end game is and why he’s laying these bricks here and there. They know exactly what’s going on. They know exactly why they’re doing it. So they’ve got the big picture in mind. They’ve got the why.
And they’re probably at the end of the day, they’re probably gonna finish the road to get a nice job and mortar line, as opposed to the other person who’s possibly just laying bricks and at five o’clock or four o’clock or whatever it is, packs up and goes home because it’s just a transaction. I lay my 500 bricks a day, that’s my KPI. That’s what I need to do to get paid. One’s engaged in the outcome, the bigger picture and they know why, the other one’s just showing up for work, treating it as a transaction.
treating himself and herself as a commodity and the company’s possibly treating them as a commodity where the other one’s going, this is what we’re trying to do people. This is what the end result, collectively this is what we’re gonna build together and it’ll be amazing and how proud will we be when we all know that we’ve participated, we’ve contributed into building this magnificent structure.
Kevin Harrington (15:34)
So out of those two different groups, the group of people that are laying bricks and the group of people that are building a cathedral, which ones are you going to retain for longer? Which ones are going to perhaps consider moving off? The people that are fully engaged in building the cathedral, that are part of that bigger exciting vision, they’re going to stay for longer because they’re enjoying it and they’re proud of it. The ones that are, as you describe,
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (15:36)
you
Yeah.
Yeah, they’ve got purpose,
they’ve got their own meaning, they’re involved in a meaningful work, whereas the other one’s just laying bricks.
Kevin Harrington (16:08)
Yeah, and you said that that that
person that’s just laying the bricks, just building a wall, it’s more of a transactional thing. So if they can get a job doing the same thing closer to home, if they can get the same job with slightly less hours or slightly more money, you’ll lose them. Yeah. And actually, you want to lose those people because they’re doing the worst job anyway. But the thing to do is to focus on
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (16:28)
Penny more per brick.
Kevin Harrington (16:36)
sharing that vision about the cathedral, whatever in your business the cathedral is, if your bricklayers know about it, they’ll do a better job, they’ll do it for longer, they’ll be happier people, and they’ll probably also help solve some other problems on the construction by saying, we did it like this, do know what, it’d be easier putting those gutterings in or whatever it might be.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (16:54)
Yeah.
And that’s another point, isn’t it? That’s where we’ve got to realize that everyone has an equal capacity to contribute to the overall project. And the person on the front line has often got much better ideas. Yeah, we’ve got management who have gone, this is what I want, this is how I want it to happen. But they’re just not aware of the intricate details, the actual problems, the issues that need to be overcome to achieve that. The people on the front line have always got insight of how to solve problems and… ⁓
They’re the ones doing it and get into their eyes and minds and see how to solve the problems.
Kevin Harrington (17:37)
Yeah, we’re talking here a bit about ⁓ engagement and engagement is driven by, as we’ve said, by what the vision is and what the culture of the business is. But it also does require people, managers and team leaders to be a little bit more brave, rather than feeling that they’ve got power to just tell people what to do. Quite often, if people are going to do the best job for it,
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (17:47)
Okay.
Kevin Harrington (18:06)
for you, need to discuss what you’re trying to achieve with them and say, now, what’s the best way we can collectively achieve this? And the people that are doing the job often will have better and more efficient, more effective ways of getting to an end game if they understand what we’re trying to achieve as a business. So we need braver, more open-minded team leaders and managers and directors in organizations to make this work. We need to use these two flappy ear things we’ve got.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (18:09)
Yep.
Kevin Harrington (18:34)
either side of our head to listen to what’s going on.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (18:38)
And yeah, and I think coming back to the vision, if the business has a vision and going, this is what we’re trying to achieve, then the managers who are working and going, this is the standard we’re looking to maintain. This is the outcome. This is the project delivery. They need to know that if they’re going to make decisions and make some tough calls that are going to be required to maintain or achieve those standards, they need to know that the leadership above has got their back.
because you’re here in workforces all the time where you’ve got a manager who’s really passionate about trying to achieve things lower down. And she just doesn’t follow through and deliver to the standard that she would love or he would love to maintain and be capable of because they know that they’re just going to be let down. If it gets escalated up to the next level, they know that their manager is not going to back them.
Kevin Harrington (19:32)
So I want to
move this through to talk a little bit about recruitment. And I’m gonna talk about a friend of mine, Naomi. And she’s been a successful recruiter for quite a long time. And she now has been given a new role in her business. And she works now internally around making sure they hire the right people as recruiters. But a lot of it is around engagement.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (19:38)
Okay.
Kevin Harrington (20:02)
and sharing of the vision and the mission of the business. Isn’t that exciting? A recruitment company looking after their people and realizing that they’re the most valuable thing they’ve got. if they’re practicing that, perhaps we should consider better how we’re recruiting people and what we’re recruiting them into. How many of us can remember, and I think everyone listening to this will say, yeah, I remember that, so and so, in this company, whatever.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (20:06)
Wonderful.
Kevin Harrington (20:32)
How many of us have been in a situation where there’s been someone toxic in a team and really from day one, they should never have been there. So much management focus goes on to dealing with that person, that individual. So much of that toxic spread goes where people go, it’s unfair, why are they getting all the attention? Why do I have to do more because that person’s not pulling their weight and so on. So how did that happen? It happened because perhaps,
Not always the case, but perhaps and probably the recruitment process wasn’t thorough enough. We all know why that happens. We’ve got a vacancy, everyone’s having to work harder because we’ve got one or two people left in a team we should have. Let’s hire them quickly, let’s do it. And success is, manager, I’ve done the job, I’ve hired two new people, they go great, well done. And then the problem starts.
the cost, the enormous cost of employing the wrong people and then having to help them on their way, sack them, move them on, don’t sign off their probation, whatever. The money that costs is phenomenal and the engagement level of everyone drops. We must, we must, we must pause and spend more time being really sure we’re recruiting the right people for the right roles.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (21:35)
Mm-hmm.
Kevin Harrington (21:59)
that are going to fit in with the culture of our business. If it takes one more interview, two more interviews, let’s do it because the trouble it’s going to solve is phenomenal.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (22:09)
Yeah. Do you think historically recruiting has spent too much time on the capability to fulfill the role ⁓ and being able to do the tasks and whether they got the skills to do the job today and neglecting the cultural fit and if they’re aligned and to the big picture?
Kevin Harrington (22:32)
I completely agree with that. Let’s just imagine a triangle and on the angles of the triangle, there’s three things. There’s knowledge on one side, there’s skills, and then there’s the person, which is all the things you were just talking about. They’re personal attributes.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (22:44)
Yeah.
The
attitude is often, knowledge, skill and attitude is what Covey talks about.
Kevin Harrington (22:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, okay, that’s all those words are right. And it’s good we’ve used a variety to help understanding. But I don’t know about you, but we can train people in skills and we can help them gain knowledge. What we can’t change the inherent underlying character we’re employing. So let’s get that right. And you’re dead right, there’s there’s so much
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (23:08)
Yep.
Kevin Harrington (23:20)
recruitment questions are being asked about can you do this in this situation? How would you do that? And criteria based interviewing is part of the problem here. And we go, yeah, they’ve got the qualifications, they’ve demonstrated the understand the skill, they demonstrated they’ve got the knowledge, but actually, do you know what they’re going to be a square peg in a round hole in our business? They might be the most wonderful people even, just not right for here. And
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (23:47)
Yeah.
Kevin Harrington (23:49)
then the problem starts.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (23:49)
Culture. Yeah. It’s interesting because we’re talking about intangible assets and we’re talking about the talent and the people and the culture being an intangible asset of your business. And culture is one of those things that’s just sort of talked about and going, yeah, but it is what it is. We, how do you manage it? ⁓ And we hear about values and vision and mission and
the leadership styles, all influencing culture. And I think culture is, you know, the end of the day comes down to beliefs and behaviors. What, what, what do we believe in this organization? What, what, beliefs do we have? What do we believe to be true? ⁓ and, and what behaviors, what behaviors do we accept and what behaviors do we reject importantly? And I think.
we’ve got to look at those consciously and go, what do we want? If we start to break it down and go, what do we want in our organization? Then we’ll start to understand what to look for, what will fit and what won’t fit. yeah, and that’s when we’re starting to use our people and our talent and talent being like, I guess I’m borrowing that term from the creative industries, the talent being the people who do the work.
and show up and create the relationships and are engaged and create engagement with the clients and our suppliers and the people outside our business. When they’re all aligned to the same big picture, it just creates seamless flow. And when they’re not aligned, it just creates friction and speed bumps and mistakes and rework and ⁓ slowdowns. ⁓
you know, doing things by the book and to the book and, you know, just slowing things right down. They’re not showing initiative because, you know, for whatever reasons in the culture. So that’s what we mean by using culture and people and talent as an intangible asset. Yeah. We touched on recruiting. What do our recruitment cost? Do people stay in our business and grow and develop and turn into an asset in our business because they stay with us long term?
and they’ve got all that corporate history, ⁓ or have we got rogue people in the organization and that the leadership is too scared to do anything about, and so they just accept that person, that toxic behavior in the business. There’s a reflection on the talent and the culture of the business. Do they eject ⁓ that person out of the business or do they just put up with it? I think ⁓ Simon Sinek has a good…
story that he talks about and he says, to ask, ask any team, go, who’s the asshole? And everyone will point to them and they’ll go, there’s the toxic person right there. And do we want them as part of our business? Yes or no? Yeah. Are they a fit? ⁓ What, what’s leadership doing about it? And ⁓ it’s often very obvious and everyone knows, and they’re waiting for leadership to act on it.
Kevin Harrington (26:58)
Yeah, and so a solid theme through what we’ve been talking about today, Darrell has been, do does the business or do we treat people as a commodity or an asset? If we treat them as a commodity, it’s all very transactional. You lay this number of bricks for me and I’ll pay this amount of money, whatever it might be. The asset piece I find genuinely fascinating. Let’s let me suggest a method of thinking about it. Consider a
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (27:10)
Yeah.
Kevin Harrington (27:27)
the person I’m going to employ as a startup business. They’re starting up in their career. And we invested in assets. And we know startup businesses and also startup people. They have frenetic times where they don’t know everything. They don’t have all the skills and knowledge. But if we get the right one, they’ve got the work rate, they’ve got the desire, they’ve got the tenacity, they’ve got the, they challenge things and ask questions. And we can invest in an asset like that.
because the core underlying vision of that asset is something that’s going to go places. And the person that’s starting in a ground level job in a business this Monday could well be sitting on a board of a company in two, three decades time when that asset has grown value through their career. We have a responsibility to look after our assets. If one day they leave, isn’t that exciting? We’ll have a friend somewhere else.
You know, bit of staff turnover is going to happen, but it’s great if our people go off elsewhere. But if all they are is transactional tokens, we are going to reduce the human nature of our business. We’re going to make it a less friendly business to our customers and suppliers and so forth. We won’t get the engagement. We’ll get half of the value from our people if we do that.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (28:32)
Hmm.
And that’s as good a summary as anything I’m thinking. And, you know, it is all about building, treating our people as assets rather than commodities. And, you know, there’s the headline. And if we’re thinking of them in that way, then we’ve built an intangible asset in our business that will add to the valuation ⁓ when there’s a change in leadership or ownership.
Kevin Harrington (29:17)
Wise words, Darryl, wise words.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (29:20)
Kevin, as always, thanks for sharing your Exit Insights with us today.
Kevin Harrington (29:25)
Thank you, Darryl. Look forward to the next time.
Darryl Bates-Brownsword (29:27)
Sounds good.